The Boulder Church

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Tree Discussion - Lafayette Gathering this Sat, July 24

Tim — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:31:00 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:31 pm

Gathering is in Lafayette at the Hanes' home this Sat, July 24, 6pm-8pm.

We'll continue a discussion started last week on, "SPIRITUAL LESSONS
FROM TREES, part two."

Joyce Kilmer:
"I THINK that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.

A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;

A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;

Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.

Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree."

Jesus: "I am the vine, and you are the branches."

Psalm 1:
How blessed is the man who[se]...delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers.

More tree stories to come...blessings,

Lafayette Tomorrow

Tim — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:20:29 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:20 am

Tomorrow 7/17, we will be meeting in Lafayette at the Hanes' home, 6-8pm. If it is too warm, we will walk over to the park across the street. (This is normally our Denver meeting Sat, but our host has a prior out-of-town engagement).

Louis posted our very interesting thoughts from last week's discussion on "eternity" and "infinite" on our message board, under CONSIDERED OPINIONS.

Nederland - Healing Lodge tomorrow

Tim — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:30:25 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:30 am

Tomorrow (7/10) there will be another Healing Lodge by Joey in
Nederland at 6pm. There are a couple of spots still open, please let
me know if you are interested.

Blessings,

Definitions of Eternity, following an e.e. cummings poem

Louis.com — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:45:49 +0000

Author: Louis.com

Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:45 pm

Sat. July 3, we read this poem from e.e. cummings:

i thank You God for most this amazing
day:for the leaping greenly spirits of trees
and a blue true dream of sky;and for everything
wich is natural which is infinite which is yes

(i who have died am alive again today,
and this is the sun's birthday;this is the birth
day of life and love and wings:and of the gay
great happening illimitably earth)

how should tasting touching hearing seeing
breathing any-lifted from the no
of all nothing-human merely being
doubt unimaginable You?

(now the ears of my ears awake and
now the eyes of my eyes are opened)

Then the group came up with definitions of "eternity" which I volunteered to consolidate (but am not being too thorough, meaning I'm leaving out some of the better parts):

-- a forever after that I cannot totally comprehend, Bliss
-- humanism, love
-- that which is not subject to the constraints of time (whatever that means)
-- the Next, the New, the Beyond
-- knowing God; eternal contentment
-- forever backwards and forwards...like the stuff beyond the stars
-- all that is not changeable (superimposed over a pencil drawing)
-- and then instead of using a borrowed book as a surface for her paper, Mindy opened the book and borrowed Gerard Manley Hopkins' lines from "Spelt from Sibyl's Leaves" (EARNEST, earthless, equal, attuneable, ' vaulty, voluminous, � stupendous / Evening strains to be t�me�s v�st, ' womb-of-all, home-of-all, hearse-of-all night.). . . "that's long-hand for 'don't know'"

Boulder gathering tomorrow

Tim — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:04:23 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:04 pm

Hey guys,

Boulder gathering tomorrow night (June 3rd) at Evan and Timsy's, 6pm-8pm. Join us if you are in town!

Looking forward to it,

Please let me know ASAP if you need directions or a ride.

Blessings,

No gathering tomorrow, Boulder gathering next week

Tim — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:17:12 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:17 pm

Hey guys,

We are in Nebraska, fishing this weekend.

We'll meet at Evan and Timsy's next Sat.

Blessings,

Church at the Park in Denver tonight!

Tim — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:23:52 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:23 am

Here's a better link for directions:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Boulder,+CO&daddr=Commons+Park,+Denver,+CO&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.34618,56.513672&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=10

union of theology and science?

Timsy — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 06:16:56 +0000

Author: Timsy

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:16 am

Hi - this article might be interesting for some of the folks on this thread: http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2010/06/09/127591801/is-scientific-inquiry-restricted-to-nature

Lafayette Gathering Tonight

Tim — Sat, 22 May 2010 04:48:22 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:48 am

Lafayette Gathering tonight, 6pm-8pm.

Original Sin, one more question.

EvanA — Tue, 18 May 2010 11:43:32 +0000

Author: EvanA

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:43 am

I guess it is difficult to argue that each organism with neurons has a subjective set of values. I was refuting Chesterton's claim about sin being a fact as plain as potatoes, etc., in my original response to his quotation. He also seems to think that because his favorite philosophers and theologians all believed in positive evil, that proves that positive evil exists. In truth, it is not relevant whether Aristotle, Plato, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Kant, and Paul all believed in absolute standards of morality. All that matters is whether their arguments are strong or weak. They are quite weak, yet all of them, and many others, have maintained quite adamantly that absolute moral standards do exist.

The greatest skeptics are those who see through these specious arguments, as Hume, Pyrrho, and Nietzsche all did in the West, the Daoist philosophers Chuang Tzu and Lieh Tzu did in East Asia (as did many Zen Buddhists later on), and some heterodox philosophers did in India. Hume: he believed, as far as I understand him, that moral beliefs are rooted in subjective emotional reactions that vary from person to person. I think he has a strong argument.

Pyrrho, Chuang Tzu, and Lieh Tzu seem to emphasize transcending all dualistic beliefs, including those based on conventional notions of right and wrong, benefit and harm, pleasure and pain, etc. Then again, they make non-dualistic thinking the standard of morality, though they would almost certainly agree that thinking of non-duality in ethical terms prevents its realization.

Nietzsche generally argued that subtle psychological proclivities based on one's position in society, one's cultural background, and one's level of confidence, among other factors, influence (perhaps even determine) the creation of all ethical and metaphysical systems. His argument for the will to power starts with the belief that there are no absolute standards of morality, but that moralities that glorify strength rather than weakness are more life-affirming, and so better in his subjective estimation.

All of these guys had good arguments against absolute standards of morality, yet all realized the inevitability of having some sort of moral standard based on subjective factors. I cannot argue with you there.

However, I do think that the belief that there are not absolute moral standards goes against the Platonist and Aristotlean strains of Western Philosophy, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Baha'i, Confucianism, all traditional African religions, all traditional religions of Oceania, and all traditional Native American religions. However, these traditions all have what their adherents believe are absolute standards because of the adherents' emotional attachment to certain views, based on subjective factors, not to mention a very ethnocentric worldview.

The "problem" of living once's life in conformity with natural law (which I would say is probably the most common philosophical or ideological dilemma in human history) no longer exists once people admit that any belief in absolute standards of morality is empirically baseless.

(This is an addition to my last posts.) Even life and death and pleasure and pain are not necessary standards, as I discussed previously, and they tell us very little in the way of practical information even if people choose to make them the standard: many value systems are compatible with life, unless people try to define organisms' purposes or natures, of course, but no organism, particularly not the human being, has a particular/unique purpose, function, or nature that can be pinned down with precision. People can survive in many different ways, and people disagree sharply about what truly constitutes pleasure and pain. The Theravada Buddhists think that attachment to people, ideas, and specific courses of action ultimately leads to suffering because none of those things last, and so advocate calming the mind and seeing that things are impermanent, that the human "self" is in a constant state of flux and so lacks any substantial or permanent existence, and that suffering results from clinging to impermanent things (and either preferring to have or avoid those things). In practice, this is, in my opinion, a form of hedonism (making suffering the standard of good and evil cannot be called anything else), yet is a very far cry from all forms of prosperity-based hedonism. (So is Epicureanism, for that matter.)

I guess I'm rambling. Oh well. Chris, I think you probably agree with most of what I have written so far. My point is that if you are right, which I think you are, that subjective moral standards are inevitable, and all we have to go by, that goes against the dominant Western philosophical traditions and the whole Christian religion, not just as traditionally practiced, but as it undeniably exists in the language of the Bible as well. It means people can choose whatever moral standards they want, inasmuch as they have free will. And we all have apparent free will. So we can all appear to change our views by free choice. In practice, this means people can truly have whatever moral beliefs they want. That goes against Chesterton and most philosophies and religions in human history.

Denver Cancelled Tomorrow

Tim — Fri, 14 May 2010 18:45:57 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 6:45 pm

Hey guys,

I am sorry to send this out so late, but our Denver meeting is cancelled tomorrow (Sat 5/15). We will meet in Lafayette next week (Sat 5/22) 6-8pm.

"...and The Brain of Pooh set sail forthwith in a south-westerly direction, revolving gracefully..." - Milne, 1926

I love you all...and look forward to seeing you next week...

Healing Lodge Tonight

Tim — Sat, 08 May 2010 07:06:37 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:06 am

We're having another Healing Lodge in Nederland tonight (May 8th). This Lodge if full, but please let me know if you are interested in one in the future.

Denver next week!

Quote:

"And then this Bear, Pooh Bear, Winnie-the-Pooh, F.O.P. (Friend of
Piglet's), R.C. (Rabbit's Companion), P.D. (Pole Discoverer), E.C. and
T.F. (Eeyore's Comforter and Tail-Finder) -- in fact, Pooh himself --
said something so clever that Christopher Robin could only look at him
with mouth open and eyes staring, wondering if this was really the
Bear of Very Little Brain whom he had known and loved so long."

Lafayette Gathering Tonight 5/1

Tim — Sat, 01 May 2010 06:46:30 +0000

Author: Tim

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:46 am

Lafayette discussion tonight (Sat, 5/1), 6pm-8pm!

(The first Sat is our scheduled Boulder meeting, but Evan is pushing through his last days of law school [cheers Evan!]).

Had a great week in Portland, looking forward to tonight.